Boxcutters - An Australian TV Podcast - Latest Comments in The golden age of television

Re: The golden age of television

Rob Boxcutter — Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:51:45 -0000

TIME's TV critic James Poniewozik has recently posted a list of the 100 best TV shows of ALL-TIME.

He details his guidelines for choosing, particularly in the short video interview accompanying the list.

He gives a brief run-down of every show on the list, as well as a 30 second video clip.

Shall we compare?

Re: The golden age of television

catbrain — Wed, 12 Sep 2007 03:07:27 -0000

I think I mentioned somewhere along the line (not this thread, obviously) that I would plump for Gilmore girls: shotgun dialogue, an excellent ensemble cast, a story arc that continued all the way through every season (even if it didn't finish quite the way Amy Sherman-Palladino would have wanted), completely believable characterisations - it had a lot going for it. I don't know if The Lads have ever really watched it - perhaps it was all a bit too girlie for them. I've often been surprised by the people who have watched the show religiously, and not just for Lauren Graham.

Out of the list, I would certainly agree with
Arrested Development
Buffy
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Lost
Love My Way (even though Claudia Karvan as Frankie shits me to tears - I still think she's just wrong for the part)
Nathan Barley (why did it take me so long to find out about this gem??)
The Office
Oz
Six Feet Under
The Sopranos (just you try leaving this one off the list...)
South Park
The Wire
The West Wing

Deadwood I'm sure I'll include when I actually get around to watching it; it's been ages since I've seen any of The Larry Sanders Show and don't really recall enough to comment; I wouldn't include I’m Alan Partridge because, to me, it just smacks a bit of The Norman Gunston Show (yes, I know - it's not the same, but there's enough of a similarity with the gormless hosts for me to feel it's nothing new, just new to the next generation).

After contemplation and re-watching some eps recently, I would definitely include Sex and The City (good call, Jimbo), and I still reckon The Games deserves to be on there, if only for its freakishly prophetic nature - I pity John Clarke and Ross Stevenson that they've had enough contact with bureaucracy that they could predict what would happen with astonishing accuracy. In a similar vein I would consider Grass Roots, and a couple of other Australian shows - if only to give a parochial edge because, sometimes, I feel we are too eager to just eat up whatever is fed from the US; just because they spent a shitload more $ per ep doesn't necessarily make it better. (But a bigger industry enables more programs to be made, ergo more will be better - hopefully - so I know the argument goes both ways.)

One that I doubt many (if any) people will agree with is I Am Not An Animal, which I consider to be brilliant social satire with wonderful collage animation. A pity it only ran to 6 episodes.

I would also go in to bat for Top Gear (yes, Ross - stop scoffing, it IS art; it's also about passion, and I'm NOT a car person), except that it's been going for nigh on 30 years, even though the current format only came about in 2001.

Re: The golden age of television

rilestar — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:55:17 -0000

Catbrain - your conciliatory tones have put me in something of a dilemma. Do I stick to my guns, and stubbornly refuse to second-guess The Lads'(TM) selections, or do I take up your lovely offer, and share a little, perhaps having a little cry?

I might actually take the third option, which is to put my hands in my pockets, murmur "I don't know, what do you think", and kick at the ground a little bit.

To be honest, hypothetically assuming for the moment that I had my own podcast (let's call it "CutBoxers") and was doing my own Golden Age, there would be a bunch of official ones that wouldn't make my list, only because I haven't really watched them, including West Wing, Friday Night Lights, Deadwood, Love My Way, and even (gulp) The Sopranos (though I'm planning on catching up with that via my brother's DVD collection). I don't have the download abilities, so I've generally had to rely on free-to-air (although we got Foxtel just recently), cutting out most of those delectably enticing HBO dramas.

Those that I would definitely agree with are Arrested Development, Buffy, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Futurama, I’m Alan Partridge, The Larry Sanders Show, Lost, The Office, and South Park (mostly comedies, I just realised). I would probably add to that the Daily Show, My Name is Earl, 24, and Harvey Birdman (and possibly even The Colbert Report, which, although it was born of the Daily Show, is a step beyond and in some ways more "ground-breaking" than the Daily Show, since it mocks the bad guys seemingly from their own team). If someone was to wake up from a ten-year coma, I wouldn't want them to miss those, to see how television had changed. Sex and the City (though I'm not a fan, because I'm, like, totally masculine) and Top Gear might also scrape through. There are other shows I like (I'm tempted to add Heroes), but not sure if they'd make the grade, criteria-wise.

Since it's taken me over a week to get back to you, you'd think I'd have thought about this a bit more. But I truly haven't.

Plus I, uh, don't care...

Re: The golden age of television

catbrain — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:00:24 -0000

Family Guy is not funny. Re: its inclusion in GAT,...

For a minute there, I thought I'd missed something and it was in the list. phew.

rilestar, we were asked for our opinions regarding the list. Despite the comments maybe occasionally getting a little assertive or defensive, I'm sure The Lads(TM) are loving how much discussion it has generated.

You say you don't care one way or t'other what's on it; I, for one, would be very interested to know of any shows you might include that haven't already been named. Care to share?

Re: The golden age of television

Ross — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:03:02 -0000

Hooray!! Finally someone else can admit to liking Curb.

Re: The golden age of television

rilestar — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:34:33 -0000

A quick few words, if I may:
Curb is hilarious.
Family Guy is not funny. Re: its inclusion in GAT, another show about a family with an idiot Dad, that sometimes goes off on weird tangents, and which is funny, came before it.
I tried watching West Wing once, and found it a bit boring. I am wearing a flame-proof vest.
Re: Daily Show, Joshie, I find I can watch episodes again and again (they’re on right now whilst Jon is on vacation, and I still watch ‘em), but I don’t believe that was in the original criteria the envelope specified. The main criteria was groundbreaking-ness (or should that be groundbreaking-osity?). I believe ground was broken, but of course, GAT is the Boxcutter’s thing, and I couldn’t care less that it’s not in.
I love Futurama, and couldn’t care less that it IS in. Ditto Buffy, Lost, I'm Alan Partridge (a-haaaa), Arrested development, et al.
All of you people complaining about what should and shouldn’t be in GAT should do your own podcast, and then you can have your own list.
When I do my own podcast (and I won’t), Boxcutters will be in my Golden Age of Podcasts.
I agree that television really has changed in the past ten years, and reckon you've done a good job of pulling out the shows that have been in some way responsible for this. Good work, guys.
Twin Peaks was groundbreaking.
The End

Re: The golden age of television

catbrain — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:57:10 -0000

I enjoyed Seinfeld until about season 5, but never for the character of George; similarly, I enjoyed The Office for the secondary characters, never for David Brent. I don't mind CYE, but my enjoyment is strictly limited to very small doses. That said, I strongly agree that it should be in GAT, if only for its acknowledged influence on a number of other shows and writers; neglecting to include it would be going down the path of favourite shows again.

Re: The golden age of television

Adam D — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:08:50 -0000

@Ross:

The other thing I don’t get is how many people revere The Office (UK) and detest Curb. It would make far more sense to me if you either hated both or enjoyed both. Strange.

Stereolab is influenced heavily by Can and Neu and Faust; I don't like any of them, yet I love Stereolab.

Perhaps I just need to see more Curb.

On Gervais, has anyone here heard his podcasts and UK radio shows? It's very easy to see where a lot of the Extras humour came from.

Re: The golden age of television

Ross — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:22:16 -0000

So, thanks to remembering via mentions several posts ago I finally got around to sourcing the Ricky Gervais Meets series that I was talking about way way back in this thread. I've only watched the one with Larry David so far but it is very interesting in outlining his writing process and how and why he does what he does etc and well worth a watch, if you are... well... if you are me I guess.

While I completely understand why people wouldn't like Curb, I find it staggering that I am the only person who seems to like it from the Boxcutters family. This is speaking in a general enjoyment capacity, not for the purposes of GAT. It's like Seinfeld - it is so the stuff of life - the pain and suffering and torture of the every day, the ludicrous folly of existence. And it is immensely funny. Sure, not every ep, but when it is on song, which is often, it is hilarious.

The other thing I don't get is how many people revere The Office (UK) and detest Curb. It would make far more sense to me if you either hated both or enjoyed both. Strange.

Very much looking forward to the new series.

Re: The golden age of television

kerrie — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:51:17 -0000

I went to a U and a V and also an R. This is just like Sesame St.

I tried to watch Curb Your Enthusiasm but decided the gritted teeth and wincing weren't doing me any favours and I stopped. Through sheer bravery I made it all the way through the first DVD before throwing in the towel.

Re: The golden age of television

Adam D — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:38:57 -0000

Bugger. I went to an S.

Re: The golden age of television

fourthof5 — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:09:31 -0000

A place starting with "L"

Re: The golden age of television

Adam D — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:04:03 -0000

You teach? Where?

Re: The golden age of television

fourthof5 — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:01:00 -0000

LOL I can't help myself. I teach Media Studies at University. Its in my nature to be academic. I could mention spaces. Hell I could mention the public sphere as well. Or I could even go with the Frankfurt School and Theodore Adorno's "The Culture Industry". (which is a text that is both right and wrong at the same time)But I will spare you that level of academic discussion.

Re: The golden age of television

Adam D — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:48:12 -0000

Wey-hey, I knew my media studies major would come in useful one day.

The whole GAT thing is only there to generate discussion and expose some recent quality television. Of course there'll be subjective differences. The West Wing bores the arse off me (and don't start me on whatever the hell Curb Your Enthusiasm is), but if enough people can independently see value in something and explain that value, they're worth listening to.

The simple fact is that all texts are open to all kinds of interpretation, however valid that might be. I never ever understood what was so good about The Red Green Show, despite aboue half my friends telling me it was unmissable.

Re: The golden age of television

catbrain — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:16:29 -0000

Cultural relativism? Texts? Next you'll be mentioning spaces and we'll be well on the way to an academic discussion.... *grin* Perhaps that's what we need at this point: we've covered favourites; we've done the technical; now to theoretical. Bring it on.

Re: The golden age of television

fourthof5 — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:57:27 -0000

I think one of the things missing from the GAT was cultural significance. For example, comedy often works best when the audience has an understanding of the culture. As such, films like the Castle work well in Australia because we tend to get the cultural significance of specific cultural references. That does not always translate overseas. The Castle didn't work in the US partly because they didn't get the cultural significance of it. Similarly, a lot of the British stuff relies on an understanding of British culture. Without it, it can fail. Being British (and having lived in OZ for a good 30 years now)I tend to see both sides of the cultural sphere. But there are still things that Australians find funny that I don't and visa versa. I don't think you can omit a show based on the idea that because you don't "Get it" then its crap. I don't get "Kath and Kim" nor do I find it very funny. Yet its ability to affect a large proportion of the Australian audience is something worth thinking about. Neighbours I think is shit. Proper shit, but it has had a huge impact on both Australian and overseas audiences. As such it becomes an important text. "Acropolis Now" (and its variations) is another example of a text I would suspect as not working with audiences outside Australia, yet it has had an incredible impact with in the Australian TV landscape. It is one of the few TV shows which have presented ethnic diversity with in the mainstream (outside SBS). The significance of this should not be overlooked.

Or perhaps I am being overly academic

Re: The golden age of television

kerrie — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:33:03 -0000

catbrain, you seem to have a head full of TV knowledge. My feeble TV brain has never heard of Certain Women. Agree that Love My Way does a great job in its portrayal of women - and suggest that the characters in SaTC are often little more than cliches and archetypes - but what made SaTC different for me was that female friendship is at the core of the show. Good point re: the generational/cultural thing.

(I make it sound as though SaTC is my favourite TV show ever - far from it. And I grew really bored with it by the end, but in 1999 it seemed to have a big impact on a lot of people.)

Re: The golden age of television

catbrain — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:04:06 -0000

Interesting points you make about SaTC, kerrie, and probably quite valid for inclusion on the basis of the last 10 years, but it's not new to portray women in such a fashion - there are numerous British series that have done it over the years, and kicking back to the 70s in Australia there was an excellent soap called Certain Women - which is not to say that Australia hasn't produced anything since, as Love My Way has done a great job (and is included in GAT). Perhaps it's more about each show speaking to a particular generation or a particular culture.

Re: The golden age of television

kerrie — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:13:42 -0000

I'm glad the people have spoken for me and managed to get West Wing included, but I'm also gunning for Sex and the City. I know when I accidentally stumbled across an episode late one night not long after moving to another country (completely unaware of its existence), I'd never seen anything like it before. And not just for the obvious reasons that have probably been mentioned, but also because I felt as though I was seeing real female friendship portrayed on the small screen for the first time. We didn't have their money and careers or wear their clothes (or have such interesting love lives) but they spoke just like we did. About the things we did. In detail. And it was smart and funny. It's probably not a reason for GAT inclusion, but it was a big deal for the women I knew seeing their secret lives portrayed on TV in an intelligent way. I'm guessing blokes probably take this stuff for granted because the stories have always been about them.

Just wanted to say that. *gets off soapbox*

Re: The golden age of television

FulltimeCasual — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:57:55 -0000

and @guywithoutaname,

yeah, nathan barley is available via the googles, but you'll find the stage6 version are much higher quality... as is veoh.com

its a shame really, pirating tv used to be such a chore, now its so easy it takes some of the fun out of it..

Re: The golden age of television

FulltimeCasual — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:54:19 -0000

ross, if you've never heard of spaced til this week, then rejoice. you have 7 perfect hours of television waiting for you (just borrow the dvd i gave brett).

and then, all you boys need some serious bsg time..

Re: The golden age of television

Rob Boxcutter — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:52:11 -0000

Band of Brothers is certainly good television. Sort of like Saving Private Ryan, but over 10 (?) episodes.

I had never heard of Spaced until now.

What will we be arguing about this week?

Re: The golden age of television

peter — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:24:30 -0000

Ross,

The only problem with the name PeBo is the association with fly-spray but hey, I've been called a lot worse than that.

P

Re: The golden age of television

Ross — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:38:32 -0000

Wow, you're happy with PeBo?!? Josh swears black and blue you are against it.

Hopefully too GAT is helping people discover quality television they may not have seen. I know personally I am looking forward to catching up with Band of Brothers and Spaced based on recommendations in this thread.